Clarke Investigation - Testimony of Colonel John T. Bissell

TESTIMONY 0F BRIG. GEN. JOHN T. BISSELL

^1^ Place: Room 2E780, The Pentagon. Date: 4 August 1945, 3:10 p. m. Present: Brig. Gen. John T. Bissell.

         Col. E. W. Gibson. 

Col. GIBSON. Gen. Bissell, Gen. Clarke has been directed by Gen Marshall to reopen this Pearl Harbor investigation on the basis of the old order that he had here last September 9 when this investigation was commenced. I would like to remind you that you are still under oath. With reference to that I would like to reswear you in, in connection with this new investigation. Do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God?

Gen. RUSSELL. I do.

Col. GIBSON. You of course are aware of your rights?

Gen. RUSSELL. I am.

Col. GIBSON Will you please state your name, rank, position and organization.

Gen. BISSELL. John T. B. Bissell, Brigadier General, O8624. Headquarters 89th Division, Artillery, APO 89, c/o Postmaster, New York.

Col. GIBSON You are here as a result of receiving cable orders to return here for purposes of this interrogation?

Gen. BISSELL. I am.

Col. GIBSON. Since your arrival here have you read the sworn testimony of Mr. Wm. F. Friedman of 13 July 45 before General Clarke

Page 100

and myself, of Col. Otis K. Sadtler of 14 July 1945, and of Brig. Gen. S Isaac Spaulding of 17 July 1945 pertaining to this Pearl Harbor matter?

Gen. BISSELL. I have.

Col. GIBSON. Did you also read a copy of the letter that Adm. Hewitt sent to Gen. Marshall calling Gen. Marshall's attention to certain testimony of this Mr. Wm. F. Friedman before Adm. Hewitt's board?

Gen. BISSELL. I did

^2^ Col. GIBSON. Gen. Bissell, you testified previously on this matter in September 1944?

Gen. BISSELL. That is correct.

Col. GIBSON. And you have refreshed your memory by reading over that testimony?

Gen. BISSELL. I have.

Col. GIBSON. Do you know Brig. Gen. Isaac Spalding?

Gen. BISSELL. I do.

Col. GIBSON How long have you known him?

Gen. BISSELL. I reported to him in June of 1943 at Ft. Bragg, N. C. while he was in command of the 13th Field Artillery Brigade. I had just been ordered to take command of the 112th Field Artillery Group which was part of that Brigade.

Col. GIBSON. Had you known him before that?

Gen. BISSELL. I had not.

Col. GIBSON. How long did you serve under Gen. Spalding at Ft. Bragg?

Gen. BISSELL. From about the 12th of June until some time in October. I was stationed with my Group at Camp Jackson, S. C.

Col. GIBSON. During this period of time did you have many occasions to converse with Gen. Spalding?

Gen. BISSELL. I conversed with him frequently as he came down from Ft. Bragg about once a week.

Col. GIBSON. How far is Jackson from Ft. Bragg?

Gen. BISSELL. Roughly, 70 miles.

Col. GIBSON So that he was stationed at Bragg and you were at Jackson all of this time?

Gen. BISSELL. Yes.

Col. GIBSON. There did come a time when his Headquarters Battery did come down to Jackson for some training?

Gen. BISSELL That is correct. It was in the latter part of July as I remember.

^3^ Col. GIBSON. At some time in your acquaintance with Gen. Spalding during those months in 1943 did he ask you about what G-2 knew about the Pearl Harbor attack?

Gen. BISSELL. Yes, he asked me several questions about it.

Col. GIBSON. Did he ask you that on more than one occasion?

Gen. BISSELL. I don't recall. I think he may have.

Col. GIBSON. Is there any particular occasion that you have in mind when he did talk with you at some length about it?

Gen. BISSELL. Yes, I recall his saying that he could not understand why the airplanes at Pearl Harbor had been lined up on the fields when conditions were as strained as they were.

Col. GIBSON. Where was that?

Gen. BISSELL. I think that was at Camp Jackson. It might possibly have been at Bragg, as I was up there several times.

Page 101

Col. GIBSON. Do you remember conversing with him about Pearl Harbor when you were sitting together under some trees on the training grounds at Jackson?

Gen. BISSELL. I don't remember the incident. It may well have occurred there or somewhere else. I don't remember the details.

Col. GIBSON. Gen. Spalding has testified that, among other things, you told him that certain messages had been received, these messages pertaining to Pearl Harbor and were in the files of G-2 and that you deemed it most necessary to destroy them. Did you ever make such a statement?

Gen. BISSELL. No, I did not.

Col. GIBSON. I show you Gen. Spalding's testimony, pages 3, 4 and of his testimony of last July, and ask if you will give your recollection of the talk you had with Gen. Spalding.

Gen. BISSELL. AS I recall it, Gen. Spalding asked me a great many questions with reference to the Counter Intelligence operated by the Military Intelligence Service of which I had been the Chief. He was particularly interested in knowing about how we had placed agents, etc. I tried to avoid the issue as much as possible and give ^4^ no information that I thought should not be revealed. Following at he discussed at some length the Pearl Harbor disaster and stated that he could not understand why G-2 had not been more alert and why the planes on the fields at Pearl Harbor had been assembled together. He asked me what I know about the matter and I told him that G-2 had been afraid of sabotage and that a message had been sent out to the Hawaiian Department alerting them to be their guard against possible sabotage. He endeavored to draw me out and as it was a matter that was more or less closed, he asked at I had personally done in the matter. I stated that I had been directed by the A. C. of S., G-2 to draft a message to the G-2, Hawaiian Department, and I believe possibly to some of the other Defense Commands and Panama to be prepared for possible sabotage on account of the very strained relations with which everyone in G-2 was familiar. He asked me further details of the matter and I stated, as I recall it, that I had stayed in the office one evening until about eight o'clock, at the direction of Gen. Miles, who was then the A. C. of S., G-2, and had prepared a message alerting the Hawaiian Department for possible sabotage and stressing the strained relations between the U. S. and Japan. I took the message in to Gen. Miles personally. He read the message and change \[Home:sic\] it materially, stressing the sabotage angle more than I had. That message, as far I know, was sent. The draft which I drew Gen. Miles destroyed. It was marked Secret.

Col. GIBSON. I show you a message, a Memorandum for the Adjutant General, dated 28 November 1941, subject: Warning to Corps Area and Overseas Commanders, signed Sherman Miles, and ask if that is a copy of the message that you refer to just now in your testimony as being the message which Gen. Miles drew and substituted for the message that you had prepared.

Gen. BISSELL. That is the message Gen. Miles drew in substitution for the one which I drafted.

Col. GIBSON. Is it your recollection that Gen. Spalding expressed to you his failure to understand why Sherman Miles and the Navy

Page 102

had failed to discover that these Japanese vessels participating in the Pearl Harbor attack had left their home ports?

Gen. BISSELL. I don't recall that. He may have discussed it but I don't recall it.

^5^ Col. GIBSON. Do you recollect Gen. Spaulding telling you that he believed that Miles was a stuffed shirt?

Gen. BISSELL. I think in the course of conversation he did state that he believed that Miles was a stuffed shirt?

Col. GIBSON. Did he tell you of his disgust that the radars on Hawaii weren't working because he knew when he left Hawaii in 1940 that they were being installed?

Gen. BISSELL. As far as I remember he never made any mention of radar.

Col. GIBSON. To your knowledge, while you were connected with G-2 were ever any records pertaining to Pearl Harbor or anything else destroyed?

Gen. BISSELL. Not as far as I know.

Col. GIBSON. And once a message was okayed and sent it was kept?

Gen. BISSELL. It went to the file immediately.

Col. GIBSON. And no files were ever destroyed?

Gen. BISSELL. Not as far as I know.

Col. GIBSON. Did you ever hear of any being destroyed?

Gen. BISSELL. No, except in 1940 when we cleaned out the World War I excess material that had no value.

Col. GIBSON. Again to clarify the record, your job in G-2 in 1941 and 1942 was always connected with the Counter Intelligence work of G-2?

Gen. BISSELL. That is correct.

Col. GIBSON. You had nothing whatsoever to do with the signal intelligence?

Gen. BISSELL. I didn't until after Pearl Harbor.

Col. GIBSON. Prior to Pearl Harbor did you receive summaries of what you later found to be information based on signal intelligence?

Gen. BISSELL. Yes I did. I knew that the summaries which I got emanated from signal intelligence. They pertained principally to ^6^ suspected Japanese again in this country, in Panama, in Hawaii, and in Alaska.

Col. GIBSON. Shortly after Pearl Harbor you began to see such material in the raw pertaining to the matters you have just outlined?

Gen. BISSELL. A few days after Pearl Harbor I saw materially more of the signal intelligence material.

Col. GIBSON. Did you tell Gen. Spaulding at any time, in substance, that you had destroyed what you would call vital records, records which if known to exist would be very unpleasant to the War Department?

Gen. BISSELL. I did not.

Col. GIBSON. Did YOU ever tell him anything from which he might infer such?

Gen. BISSELL. No.